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Important MCI 3.0 Proposal Set #1: Infected System and Infected Classes

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by maxben34, May 26, 2018.

  1. maxben34

    maxben34 Owner Owner Developer

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    Sorry if this is unclear. I meant that it would do the same damage as hitting with your boss bow as skeleton once did.
     
  2. Hoozier

    Hoozier Well-Known Member

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    The problem with balancing classes on the forums is that we have no idea how it will play. Many kits that are being listed may be over powered, under powered, or just right. We certainly will need to set a beta date to test these classes once you all give your opinions on the kits. Give me a date, and I certainly will show up while you guys can test the infected classes.

    I really rather not give my opinions on the kits as of right now because I have too much experience with trying to balance kits on paper and it not performing in game. I completely agree with the cosmetic changing.
     
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  3. Keldricc

    Keldricc Well-Known Member

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    Keldricc's ideas for improvement or general change when it comes to infected kits: the movie.
    plz take these with a grain of salt I haven't played MCI in a long time


    Mother Zombie:
    It's fine as it is. One idea that I had was to force the player off MZ after a certain amount of people become infected. Sounds terrible in theory and probably practice.

    Zombie:
    Scratch should not give poison

    Skeleton:
    Add a damage cap to sniper path, and just merge the sword with the bow. It feels really out of place and I felt it was an unnecessary addition.

    Enderman:
    Either give anger path a damage cap or remove it. Enderman is incredibly jank in its ability to just quick drop people.

    Vampire:
    I'm literally the world's #1 vampire hater. If given the choice this kit would be dead. It's either incredibly annoying to fight or literally tank fuel. If the tanker is on a high SS, the vamp gets like 2 shot. If the tanker is not jacked on strength, the vamp can do some serious damage. There is also the other situation where it just ints on a ladder spot or closed space.

    Witch:
    Allow it to lower the cooldown on its pots. It's an incredibly boring to play, with the best way to play it just chilling in spawn until you are stocked up with potions. It should either spawn with 1-2 potions or take the Alchemist in SnD path and lower the cooldown by slapping survivors.

    Baby Zombie:
    idk lol this kit is ass.

    Iron Golem: Levelling the kit needs to be made easier for sure. It's either really bad or really good depending on how levelled it is, which is poor game design imo. It's almost useless at lower levels.

    Wither Skeleton:
    This kit is usable but incredibly boring. It's also very hard to level wither path.

    Blaze:
    I personally haven't played this kit, so it's hard to say what to do with it. What I can say is that Flame Shield path is the most annoying thing in the world. It takes reduced damage, and you get punished for hitting it.

    Werewolf:
    This kit is just poorly designed. You can press shift to weaken, blind, and spawn wolves. It's not fun to fight, especially if you're out in the open.

    Slime:
    HAH

    Turkey:
    Needs to be removed. No doubt about it. The entire idea of the kit doesn't work in MCI. It's way too small to function, and no one enjoys fighting it.

    Grinch:
    If there was a way to get thorns to not set off the poison, I would be fine with it. Pretty sure that's impossible to do tho.

    Leprechaun:
    This kit's incredibly small hitbox makes it unfun to fight @Agent40

    Snowman:
    Removed. Snowballs are overpowered when it comes to zoning survivors out unless they have riot shield. It spawns with an incredibly large amount of snowballs as well. If not removed, make it so the snowball cap is much smaller, but the snowball regen is MUCH larger.

    Headless Horseman:
    Meme kit. Horse is wayyyyy too squishy, and it makes it really hard to level due to it getting one shot at lower levels.

    Scarecrow:
    Remove the KB from the crows. The lack of damage sound when you hit it is disorientating.

    Titan: YEET this kit out of MCI. It's incredibly overpowered in small spaces and incredibly bad in open ones. It's a very hot/cold kit, but a good counterpick to tanking spots.

    Shock:
    General consensus is that this kit is OP. I am honestly fine with it, but it really needs to be a regular charged creeper. The ball in the middle is super stupid, and just blocks people from eating and stuff. I get it was added because of colorblindness, but still.

    Phantom:
    This kit's ability is a joke. Both of them. The inventory scramble needs to be changed back to what it was earlier, but have the scrambles have an increase of time between them.

    Easter Bunny:
    HOTTEST OF TAKES. Make EB kinda like Snowman where it gets eggs, but if you hit an egg you have a chance to drop an egg like it's laying ability.

    Cupid:
    AOE Skeleton gone wrong. It's just bad, and should just get removed. Also, I guess it has "healing" but that's more of a meme than anything.

    Squid:
    REMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVEREMOVE

    Mole:
    I actually love the idea of this kit, and want it to stay. I just wish mini-moles worked better. They are very finicky.

    Guardian: This kit kinda just exists. It's honestly not anything special. A very balanced kit.


    TL;DR

    Buff
    • Slime
    • Witch
    • Iron Golem (Lower levels)
    • Phantom
    • Headless Horseman
    • Witch
    Change/Rework
    • Skeleton
    • Mole
    • Scarecrow
    • Snowman
    • Easter Bunny
    • Shock
    • Enderman
    • Grinch
    Nerf
    • Vampire
    • Zombie
    • Iron Golem (Higher Levels)
    Remove
    • Snowman
    • Turkey
    • Titan
    • Squid
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  4. Agent40

    Agent40 Well-Known Member YouTube

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    And considering you brought it up, most of these donor package classes don't seem like they belong in a game like mcinfected. Scarecrow, Leprechaun, and Titan are an exception. I feel like Titan could be completely reworked to be a stronger version of a normal zombie but with the according nerfs in speed and armour (So an opposite to Iron golem). I feel like Leprechaun could be brought over to Mcinfected 3.0 as well IF it had a name change. Leprechaun, to most, seems to confusing to new players just because of the name, and I should know (I've been asked to many times to count why tf a Leprechaun is in a post apocalyptic scenario). Now if we look at Scarecrow, scarecrow looks like it belongs in a post apocalyptic scenario. The only thing wrong with it, is everything but the model. If the entire kit was remade I feel like it could fit perfectly into MCI 3.0.

    This was a bit rushed and simple. I am thinking about posting specific changes later, Once I finish a suggestion for everything to do with kits X3
     
  5. MutatedGrape

    MutatedGrape Well-Known Member

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    I didn't find your scarecrow suggestion to make any more sense (entirely remaking a kit doesn't make it the same kit, does it?).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2018
  6. Rockin

    Rockin Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that classes should only exist if they fit into the apocalyptic game, like... squid makes no sense. With the exception of OG classes like iron golem and slime, because they've always been apart of the game. Scarecrow and headless horseman both fit into the game really well, and should eventually appear in MCI 3.0. As for further classes, instead of using different mobs, you can just make different types of zombies. Like how Agent said Titan can be a stronger version of zombie, we can also create a zombie with a skill based on luck, instead of a baby zombie called "leprechaun." But I feel as if this is something to be looked at down the road of MCI 3.0.
     
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  7. Agent40

    Agent40 Well-Known Member YouTube

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    You know that's the point of "Remaking a kit" right? The entire point is to make it completely different (that's why it's called a remake, because it only keeps the basis of the kit while removing everything else (the basis being the model)). Scarecrow's current kit was borderline overpowered and even after the massive nerfs it still didn't feel right.

    I'd apply the same type of logic to headless horsemen as well. If the entire kit was reworked then I feel it could get a point where it is a viable kit without the worry of being overpowered.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  8. Furiosus_

    Furiosus_ Well-Known Member

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    Although I agree with levels of infected kits being unbalanced, I do think there should be some level up system, to reward people who main the kit. Because I feel like it would be stupid that someone that just unlocked the kit has the same power as someone who has been playing the kit for months. Maybe just give it 3 levels, instead of 5. You could take the 4th and the 5th level away from a path, because usually that's where the kits get the biggest upgrades. And then make the level up recruirements way higher so it takes really long to upgrade. (Kinda what @chessgeek10 said)
     
  9. TeamPurple

    TeamPurple The Purpatraitor (Mod)

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    Leprechaun does not belong in MCInfected and changing its name does not change how it works in game right now it has a one of the highest damage out put classes at 4.25 and its healing on kill is far superior then zombies by a heart. it has higher damage than zombie and its stealing ability gives it an even further edge. its look is also to similiar to baby zombie causing confusion amongst newer players. I personally believe you are just saying this to keep your kit in the game. Scarecrow i believe should also be removed its bats are completely unfair as they basically work as a compass that leads you directly to players and its fright means its damage output with zpower and strength can out do humans healing. Titan should also go i dont need to say more what you've suggested could basically be a hole new kit named something else.
    Horseman i personally believe its horse ability is cool and it fits in as ya know the horseman of the apocalypse just needs a buff for horse and remove head throw. maybe also change wither skeleton npc to normal skeleton with some armor
     
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  10. Rockin

    Rockin Well-Known Member

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    Just because a kit is overpowered doesn't mean we should remove, it can be reworked. Kits like shock and titan should be removed, I think everyone agrees they have no place in the game. Kits that make no sense like squid and cupid should be removed. But anything that fits into the horror theme can really work in the game. Both the halloween kits are those kits, and, with reworks, I think should eventually reappear.
     
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  11. Agent40

    Agent40 Well-Known Member YouTube

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    Sorry, you forgot mention to armour difference or were you just trying to point out it's good side?
    Let's compare Zombie to Leprechaun really quickly without the bias that is presented above.

    Zombie | Leprechaun
    RAW Damage:
    4 vs 4.25

    Armour:
    6 vs 4.5

    Heal (hearts) on Kill:
    2 vs 3

    Extra Damage (at max, in health):
    2 vs 0;

    Extra Healing (at max, in hearts (without chests):
    0 vs 10

    Extra Buffs (at max):
    Speed 1 vs Nothing

    Now that the comparison is finished you can clearly see that depending on what you're wanting to role with, Zombie clearly has a higher overall DPS output. It also has the most armour and can gain speed on kill and debuff for poison (depending what path you've chosen). the only Edge Leprechaun has is it's small chance to steal food AND grenades which you clearly failed to mention and it's extra 1 heart of healing per kill IF you choose the secondary path. You'll never guess what as well, Both Zombie and Leprechaun's hitboxes are the EXACT same so there is no bonus there (1.8 server-client based which is what the server runs on btw with the exception of cross compatibility between versions which doesn't affect ANYTHING) 0.625x0.625x1.96875 (in blocks).

    Now let's go the calculations on the "further edge" known as the Luck path:
    So It's a 6% chance (at max) to steal either a grenade or piece of food. Let's put that into calculations based on the default commander inventory.
    So you have a total of 12 items possible to steal, 8 apples, 4 grenades.
    and if this is calculated by spreading the % by how much food is in the inventory (seems like it from 80% of games I've not stealing anything), we can see that that means there is a 0.5% chance to steal a single item.
    Theoretically that mean's that it takes 200 swings before actually achieving to steal a grenade or food. Practically speaking, that gets thrown out the window easily.
    Now if you add the Melon, Porkchop, Gapple, and grenade you get from getting a 6ss, you now have 16 items to steal lowering the chance to steal a single item down to 0.375% per piece. Taking this into consideration I wouldn't exactly call that a edge, just a minor buff in healing capabilities.
    So in the end all Leprechaun has over Zombie is the ability to heal more on kill and at a small random chance (which can be a tiny to huge benefit) while Zombie has more overall DPS, more armour, and the ability to debuff, and buff.

    P.S. That 0.375% chance is the chance of stealing a single and specific item at a 6ss without using grenades or healing (clearly changes based on how much food and/or grenades the survivor has)

    Sorry for pointing out your one sided statement, not saying I disagree or agree, just trying to point out how sad it is that you actually tried to make such a one sided response like this.
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think leprechaun should be in the game because it doesn’t fit with the theme of ‘Infected’ but hey that’s just me
     
  13. InDstructable

    InDstructable Active Member

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    Despite the fact i main turkey, the same is true with turkey
     
  14. TeamPurple

    TeamPurple The Purpatraitor (Mod)

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    Ok boys time to use some cold hard facts you can’t have the speed 1 and 2 extra hearts of damage a life due to paths I realise now I made the mistake of 1 heart more healing when it’s 1/2 compared to zombie assuming that’s the path you wanna role with. This in turn means max scratch and Luck. At max scratch it’s 25% chance to deal 1 damage and 25% chance to deal 3s of poison 1 now lets say excluding the poison for now I hit a player 8 times Leprechaun will deal a guaranteed 34 damage and zombie assuming that it is a 1 in 4 chance of activating will also deal 34 damage.with the poison zombie does .8 hearts of damage(1.6) but in this scenario zombies poison shouldn’t activate assuming the chance is correct you would have to hit 16 times as both classes for zombie to deal an extra 1.6 damage. We can now see that zombie has the slightest damage buff

    Now let’s look at healing say in a game both the zombie and leprechaun get 4 kills Zombie get 6 hearts healing Leprechaun 8.

    Now the luck for what you’ve said I will use that commanders have 12 items 8 food 4 grenades so 66% food 33% grenades. With a 6% chance to steal one of them now if we multiply that by 16% we have an almost 100% or stealing an item 66% or that being food. 33% grenades. Now you saying it would take 200 swings to get a piece when really you should be saying it takes 200 hits to clear out someone’s inventory assuming they don’t die. Considering that when ever you hit someone before they have lost food it is a 4% chance of getting food.

    (Also note zombie only has a .25% better chance of doing poison than aleprechaun stealing)

    Now onto the armour zombie has 6 armour bars which means 48% damage reduction Leprechaun 4.5 so a 36% damage reduction. Assuming you are being attacked for 6 damage a hit zombie will take 3.12 damage and leprechaun 3.84.this means that at no prestige zombie will die in 6.4 hits and leprechaun in 5.2 hits since you can’t have .343 of a hit you have to round up so Zombie takes 7 and Leprechaun 6 hits. If the classes were prestige 3 it would be 8.33 (9) and 6.77 (7)

    Now let’s put this Into a game scenario each kit swings 50 times and gets 5 kills

    Zombie Damage: 200
    Leprechaun: 212.5

    Scratches: 12

    Items stolen: 3
    Scratches with poison: 3 therefore +4.8 damage

    Healing Zombie: 7.5 hearts
    Leprechaun: 10 hearts

    At this point I’m going to assume that the healing is absorption hearts just to make life easier:

    Zombie Damage: 216.8
    Leprechaun Damage: 212.5

    Zombie HP: 41
    Leprechaun HP: 46

    Therefore in this scenario Zombie did 2.1 more hearts of damage than leprechaun but Leprechaun healed 2.5 more hearts which is better.

    Now let’s see how that goes against being attacked by a weapon dealing 6 damage:
    Zombie hits lasted: 14 (13.14)
    Leprechaun hits lasted: 12 (11.97

    Now zombie is obviously better but wait I forgot about luck assuming that this is a commander it is leaning towards the fact that those 3 items stolen are all going to be food as it is majority them even after 2 are gone. This gives leprechaun another 6 hearts of 12hp of health therefore making its hits lasted: 16 (15.1)

    Also although I know the hitboxes are the same the placebo affect still come into play when fighting a baby Zombie I tend to look at the body not the hitbox meaning I’m looking downwards somewhat shortening my reach whereas they are looking straight. Slight advantage due to placebo affect but not largest enough to warrant an issue.

    Therefore in conclusion you can chose Zombie a higher dps kit (barely) or leprechaun I higher health kit
     
  15. Frogged

    Frogged Well-Known Member

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    the same is true with most of the kits
     
  16. Keldricc

    Keldricc Well-Known Member

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    Lep is much better at doing damage to tankers, through melee and stealing food. Zombie is much better at killing and dealing burst damage than Lep.
     
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  17. MutatedGrape

    MutatedGrape Well-Known Member

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    Guys, as @Rockin said you don't need to prove how balanced a kit is to decide if it's in 3.0 or not, a kit's role does that. Should a kit steal food and grenades? imo infected shouldn't intervene with your inventory.
     
  18. Who am I

    Who am I Member

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    Here is werewolf kit:
    Starts off with leather armor and has a stone sword had an ability that you can use every 2 minutes that last until death (call it full moon or some shit) that gives you full iron plus diamond helmet with an iron sword and you rampage until death the full moon ability should give a speed II and is pretty op but once you die you lose it and for a 2 minute cooldown it is used about 3 times max in a round
     
  19. Furiosus_

    Furiosus_ Well-Known Member

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    'D rather have full daimond Turkey.
     
  20. IceyLightning

    IceyLightning Member

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    YES
     

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