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[VIDEO] Some info on Project Mayhem's plans and why there will NOT be a reset

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by maxben34, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. maxben34

    maxben34 Owner Owner Developer

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    Please keep the comments below civil. I understand if you don't agree with my stance on this and I'm open to hearing any insightful points that I may be missing, however, please be respectful and watch the video in its entirety before making an argument against my stance.

    Thanks for watching everybody. I hope you're excited for the new feature that we'll be making later this week (mentioned in the video)
     
  2. Hoozier

    Hoozier Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I've said from the first moment you guys even mentioned a reset at a staff meeting. This may give me enough motivation to play if others will, well done
     
  3. CREEPER__1

    CREEPER__1 Well-Known Member

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    YES, finally some feedback. Hopefully there is some changes to the ranking system and prestige perks or something close to that, because if not the new cookie boost thing might not entice players who already have every prestige perk. Also hopefully it's not another master prestige update (no offense), but it was something that tried to fix the issue with people having everything already, but ended up just making more people want to quit. However I still have big hopes for this update and the future of the server. I hope this brings back people from the community to want to play on project mayhem again where it all once started. :)
     
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  4. Frogged

    Frogged Well-Known Member

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    Although I was definitely on the side of a reset being necessary, I'm going to wait this out and see how this works.
     
  5. Draconium

    Draconium Well-Known Member

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    Aww too bad I'm on vacation. At least I have something to look forward to when I get home!!!
     
  6. chessgeek10

    chessgeek10 Well-Known Member

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    As the player who, I believe, originally brought forward the idea of a statistical reset for MCInfected, there's a lot I'd like to point out that I feel may have not been well understood. Your video certainly touched on the major arguments against the idea, and I respect your decision entirely, however, I feel it necessary to inform you of a few things that may have been overlooked.

    To begin with, your persistence and faith in the server is admirable to the highest level, but those traits can lead to flaws in perspective.

    There are currently three players on the server, at a prime time of day. None of whom are currently playing MCI. Although I cannot say that I have continually monitored the playercount, this is understandably a major issue. It seems that your faith in the server has walled you from seeing the truth about what is happening - I regret to inform you that the gamemode of MCInfected, and possibly Project Mayhem as a whole, is on its last legs. Looking at the statistic I provided above, I wouldn't be surprised if many agreed.

    To say that MCI is "not there yet" for a last effort is very unfortunate. The playercount has been declining steadily since many months ago, and at this point, there's not much left to lose. To wait even longer to submit your last efforts would be mistake, since there would hardly be any veteran players left to retain. The time to act is now - risk is becoming a necessity.

    Double cookie boosts are a drug. SuperGaming had them only on the rarest of occasions, and was very successful. To hand out double cookies more than once every few months is a mistake. Not only are you making those who are already powerful more so (which is already driving recent joins away), players don't join the server as much once the cookie multiplier ends. You might get a few extra players here and there with an automatic player-count booster, but soon the reward of people asking their friends to get on won't feel as special, and the incentive to do so will die down for all but the time when the playercount is only a few members away. Everyone wants to join the "high", but once the bonus ends, people see how "slow" it is to rank up normally, and are left dissatisfied. The server without a booster has to feel normal, otherwise, in the words of a well-known animated movie, "...when everyone's super, no one will be".

    You say that you have big plans to revive Project Mayhem, but honestly, you've been saying that about every update since I left nearly a year ago. I would argue that your projects of Mixed Arcade, Search and Destroy, Factions, MCI updates, Youtuber advertising, and everything in between has failed to be successful for more time than you spent coding the update. At this point, I've lost hope in anything new that you say will come. The abductive reasoning that precedent will determine the fate of your new plans to be the same as your previous ones is too strong to be undone by a simple statement.

    It was because of my belief that no new content may be successful that I thought of the idea of a reset - if done right, a reset does not bring new content, but the old. I can assure you that new players and old players (who had already left) alike would be attracted to, and possibly be resurrected by, drastic changes such as this one. Additionally, a reset would remind everyone and entice them to the "good old days", before the balance of power had so much rank separation.

    Something you mention in your video is that you believe a reset would result in a significant loss of veteran players. I can definitely admit that your reasoning is supported by a previous poll on another thread. Yes, some may leave for good, but I guarantee that the losses are far less than you might think, and the benefits are far greater than you believe. Taken out of context, nobody wants their stats reset; who would? But most who answered say that they'd leave the server if stats were reset, although they don't realize it, are lying to themselves. I will explain why in a bit.

    Here's what I failed to convey in my original suggestion: perfect execution is vital for the success of this plan. According to the video, you see that a reset and nothing else would be negative, and I agree. I should have mentioned that you'd be doing a lot more at the exact moment that stats were reset. Firstly, advertising, as much as you can bare to spend, would be done the day the reset goes live. With everyone at the first rank, Youtubers would be more fun, and thus more successful than previous attempts, but I should also mention that there are other forms of advertising that can be successful at drawing new players. As an example, I have heard of server browsers (vote sites) that offer "premium" timeslots, if that kind of thing may interest you.

    Guaranteeing new players the day of the reset is just as essential as the next piece - a content rework. Along with the reset would come perhaps one of the biggest updates you've ever given MCI. Not simply just balance changes or new additions, the update I suggest would rework the core concepts of things such as the ranking system, kit abilities, gameplay mechanics, or ingame items, just to name a few ideas. Even though they might not be what one would consider "necessary", or what they were expecting, large changes such as those have proven to be successful in other major online game titles. If done with a reset, people wouldn't be upset that a large change would impact their statistics negatively.

    If the suggestions I mentioned in the previous paragraph take place, almost all players wouldn't leave, even though they may had been considering it before they had seen the changes. Word would spread of a "MCI 3.0", and I cannot picture anyone declining the attractiveness of an announcement like that; everyone would at least try the new and improved Infected. Once they try it, even for a game or two, they'll be more interested in seeing more of the new features with their own eyes and most would forget being upset about the reset entirely. I've seen it with my own eyes - those who once were the most vocal to complain about a similar reset did not leave as they had promised, but instead accepted (albeit a little disappointed) the reset, and were soon back into the swing of the server.

    Overall, I think you'd be making a mistake to ignore this suggestion. You can go through with your current plan that you mentioned briefly in the video, but at the end of the month you'll be left off exactly where you started. Something drastic needs to happen, and now is much better for that than later. Having even nearly half of the playerbase behind this idea is huge, considering they're sacrificing their own stats to support this idea for the good of the server. Those who don't support me would see Project Mayhem's playercount in their server list skyrocket, take a look for themselves, and never leave. More people show up for the rebirth of a server than you'd expect - you'd be gaining those who left, those who stayed, and those who are new (without prestige perks and ranks giving them a rough time), and be left with only a tiny loss.

    The point of this post is not to change your mind, but to paint you a picture of what the server could be, and how, I believe, is the best way to get there. No matter what it is, I'll respect your decision, though I may disagree. I just want you to bare some things in mind.

    Thank you for your time,
    -chessgeek10
     
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  7. mmo

    mmo Well-Known Member

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    Hi. I highlighted in bold the points that I was going to cover myself, but you took the words out of my mouth. Good on you for being smart.

    What Ben did in his talk was cherry-pick part of the reset argument (you know, the actual reset part) and fail to mention how pro-reset people (such as myself) have acknowledged that it would only succeed with balancing changes or a complete overhaul.

    Changing the amount of cookies gained will make new players go from "wow, I have to spend 5 hours until this game is a little fun and I can actually win rounds" to "wow, I have to spend 2.5 hours....". I think this is going to hurt more than help for reasons @chessgeek10 stated (how the fuck is he so smart?).

    I love the transparency, though. I really think a balance update needs to be implemented before something radical like more boosters. Thanks for taking the time to make the video, Ben.
     
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  8. ImWithSmart

    ImWithSmart ImWithMod Moderator

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    Took the words right out of my mouth. I hope that a reset is still an option, but I'm happy to hear that something big-ish is in store for PM. I don't care what people say (i.e. "Oh another promise that isn't gonna happen," etc.), I still get excited for the server in general every time I hear this. Call me naive, but I'm happy to hear all of this, especially from ben. In summary, I will definitely keep an eye out this Friday for what is coming.
     
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  9. Frogged

    Frogged Well-Known Member

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    This is amazing and I agree 100%.
     
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  10. MadPanda007

    MadPanda007 Well-Known Member

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    Balance infected out been saying it forever
     
  11. maxben34

    maxben34 Owner Owner Developer

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    That has nothing to do with this thread.

    Balancing MCI isn't an easy task and it isn't something that can be done effectively through a few nerfs and buffs of various kits, it will require a complete overhaul of the game. It's something that we plan on doing, but things like that take time. Lots of it.
     
  12. CREEPER__1

    CREEPER__1 Well-Known Member

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    You worded this perfectly, and it basically summarized everyone's thoughts who backs up a reset. Pretty sure more than half of the community supports the thought of these ideas. Even though I would have much preferred these things with a reset, I guess we will just have to see what's planned.
     
  13. Paulgigadrain

    Paulgigadrain Active Member

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    og mci to 2.0 would technically be a reset and it seemed to have worked
     
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  14. Hoozier

    Hoozier Well-Known Member

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    I would make the claim that not even 25% of the community is in favor, but I physically wouldn't know. Most of the vocal ones are in favor, but remember that you aren't the only ones.

    I wish we would all stop pulling numbers out of our ass.
     
  15. Frogged

    Frogged Well-Known Member

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    If they cared about if they'd lose all their stats from a reset so much I'm SURE they would speak up. Stop trying to find an excuse.
     
  16. KeYLogger

    KeYLogger Active Member

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    As a player who DOESN'T support a reset I believe that we should all shutdown the whole topic of a reset, and not bring it up again. The big boss maxben said that there will not be a reset, and I believe his word is final. I think we should just see what he has in store for us, and let it be.

    Not everyone wants to reply to a post. You can't just assume that just because they didn't say anything on the post, doesn't mean they 100% support a reset. I ask players in-game sometimes and they don't want a reset.
     
  17. Frogged

    Frogged Well-Known Member

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    Didn't say that it doesn't mean they 100% support a reset. I'm just saying, however, if they actually CARED about their stats so much, then they would speak up. Because if they don't, then it's not 100% they don't want a reset but also it's not 100% they want a reset.

    Also, the big boss maxben also said this is open for debate so you cannot just shutdown the whole topic. Stop being a hypocrite.
     
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  18. Hoozier

    Hoozier Well-Known Member

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    Usually on every server about half the server doesn't even have a fucking forums account... I'm confused on your argument
     
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  19. CREEPER__1

    CREEPER__1 Well-Known Member

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    Hoozier, I'm not stating as a 100% fact that more than half the server is on the side of a reset. Nobody can make a claim on exactly how many people want a reset. Yes I understand that there are more people out there who are quiet about things like this or anything just anything in general. Examples are people in game who don't even have a forums account or teamspeak. You can ask them if they want a reset, but most likely they will just say no because they don't know the context of the matter since they don't have a forums account to read up on what the reset is in place for. Also how can you consider that a major majority of the community isn't vocal about these things. Most of what's left of the community is just the vocal people (the ones who actually care what's going on with the server). You obviously wouldn't know how many people supported a reset like you said, because you never come onto the server to see who is playing and ask them and give context. You can bring up numbers if you know where they are coming from, they are estimates. I look at a poll on how many "vocal" people have voted against or for a reset and of the 68 people who voted, 47 said they wanted a reset for the server, and they knew the context behind the matter. Now this isn't the entire community, but right now more than half of the people heard from are for a reset. Let's look at the rest of the community. Considering we have every "vocal" player covered we can join project mayhem, and look for players who don't come onto the forums or teamspeak and state their opinions. If you join project mayhem there are usually around 5-15 players on mci give or take depending on the time of day. Most of the players have been playing for a while and have donor ranks already while a small few (1-5) are new to the server. Normally when I join I see people who already have forums accounts, and these consist of the veteran players. However there still remains a few of the veteran players who don't have forums accounts. I have asked some of them with context whether or not they would like a stat reset for mci and they said they wouldn't mind (however some of them weren't too high of levels). Yes I also received some saying no. However I'm positive that there are definitely much more than 25% of this community who are down for a reset with big changes, and advertising to mci. I know that number is an estimate, but you are contradicting your statement of "pulling numbers out of our ass" when you are bringing up numbers you don't have information to back it up with. Instead of just being negative and shutting down people's thoughts try putting some effort into it and research. Right now your only argument is other half of other servers communities don't have forums accounts. That would be true for Project Mayhem a while ago, but times have changed. Lots of people have left, and really the most people we have left are just the "vocal" players.

    The group of people who want to see a reset want it because it makes it easier to fix big problems mci faces right now instead of just making them worse as time passes. With a reset bigger changes can be made, and like chessgeek said players will see that the server is making changes for the better and forget about their old stats, and actually have fun starting over again with more people. The reason I think the reset should happen now instead of later is because if it happens later more updates might have to be undone, and if we start sooner we can focus on the main problems the gamemode faces. It makes reworking balances a great thing, because tweaking kits can happen with a breeze since it won't be affecting something someone already has unlocked since the stats were reset. The only argument I see against a reset is just that people are going to quit, but really if it's performed right it should bring in more players than you are losing. Instead of just giving people more cookies that they don't even need with boosters right now is kind of pointless, there needs to be a big change.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  20. Hoozier

    Hoozier Well-Known Member

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    I skimmed through this so I may have missed some key points, but statistically Ben could tell you how many people come on. We may have only 10-15 at one time but they are usually not the same people (besides the actives) and there are multiple time zones. Overall 40ish people is not 25% of the community and Ben could easily prove that, he has a system for that. If you want to continue this then PM me because I do believe this is the wrong place to be having this but I do completely understand your point.
     

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